A primer on sexism in the tech industry

A primer on sexism in the tech industry

Designer and developer Faruk Ateş, the man behind Modernizr, says that sexism is hurting our industry in more significant ways than most people realise. Here he explains what it's all about and what we can do to address this issue

The topic of sexism and its role in the technology industry has seen a huge resurgence over the past 12 to18 months. Yet despite being discussed and examined with increasing frequency, a lot of the subject remains unclear and under-explained, making it difficult for those who care deeply about our industry to partake in these discussions. This is, in part, because the problems are incredibly complex, nuanced and difficult to explain, making it impossible for any one article to address them sufficiently (lest that article becomes a book). Nevertheless, today we're going to try and see how much of the basics we can clear up.

Overview of terms

Not everyone is always on the same page when it comes to the terms we use in these debates, so let's start there.

  • Feminism: the simple belief that women deserve to have the same social, economical and political rights as men, be treated equally and fairly, and given equal opportunities. Modern (third-wave) feminists make it even simpler: fair and actual equality for all, regardless of gender, race/ethnicity, religion, age, and sexuality.
  • Privilege: Receiving benefits in life, however subtle or invisible they may seem to you, simply for belonging to a group you didn't work hard for to get in. In today's Western society, being male, white and straight gives you three huge privileges over everyone else. More on that in a bit.
  • Positive action: Often incorrectly labelled 'positive discrimination', positive action is a measure imposed (usually by government) to enforce a change in the ratio of certain groups in systems. This act is the acknowledgment of the scientific and historical evidence that natural social progress moves too slowly, requiring overseeing entities to intervene (temporarily) as a way of speeding up this progress – so that we may actually enjoy the improvements in our lifetimes.
  • Discrimination: Prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
  • Prejudice: Preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. Since positive action is based on both reason and actual experience, the label 'positive discrimination' (and the subsequent cries of "it's still discrimination!") is inaccurate and deceitful.
  • Meritocracy: A culture or society in which power is given to people based on their proven abilities, as opposed to wealth, background, privilege, and so forth.
  • Rape culture: The assessment of how today's society makes light of rape – a physically and emotionally painful, and often traumatic and violent crime – which significantly contributes to the mistreatment of women by making their mistreatment a seemingly accepted practice. Rape jokes and their ilk contribute heavily to this.

What is the problem?

The problem is a culmination of many separate, 'smaller' problems that are endemic in our industry, and society at large. We suffer from women leaving the field citing sexism and "hostile, macho cultures" as primary reasons. The rape culture that, frighteningly, is perpetuated even by the highest level of our judicial system. The systemic dismissal of women complaining about the harassment they experience on an often-daily basis. The excessive vitriol, hatred and harassment sent towards any woman bold and courageous enough to try and tackle the problem. Those may all seem obvious, but just as big a problem is the widely-held belief (primarily among young, straight white men) that we live or work in a meritocracy.

If I'd have to sum it up as one problem, it's that many groups, but women especially, are still discriminated against heavily, while those with privilege don't want to be seen as culpable and even like to argue that these problems don't exist altogether. Women, in particular, suffer from tremendous social and professional challenges and pressures, as well as threats to their physical well-being, as a result of these problems.

We're not a meritocracy?

Those that believe we live or work in a meritocracy will argue, "but I don't care whether someone is male or female, I only care about how good their work is!" This inaccurate belief that their personal perspective is how the industry at large functions is an anecdotal logical fallacy and part of the problem. We should care whether a job applicant or potential conference speaker is male or female, because our industry is heavily skewed towards the male gender, and it makes it less appealing to women from the outset. However long it takes for us to achieve a demographically-representative mix of race and gender, that's how long we should continue to pay attention to these things a little bit, just to make sure we don't let our unconscious biases favour a continuation of white men everywhere. Because, and this is important: letting things just 'happen on their own' by not paying attention to this will only work to produce equality on a timeframe we won't even live long enough for to benefit from.

It is a very understandable argument that we should just 'let people be people' and not focus on their attributes, favouring their abilities instead, but the problem with this, as science and history have shown us over and over again, is that societies, cultures and communities all strongly favour their dominant group (straight white men, in our case) and only glacially permits change to happen. And I really do mean glacially, as in: 400 years by 'natural' means versus 20 years with an active involvement to improve certain ratios.

Socio-cultural etiquette

A subtle but illustrative example of how imbalanced our society behaves is the way in which debate on this topic takes place. A man writing sharp, incisive criticism of sexist patterns, behaviours or attitudes, may well provoke disagreement, but the tone of the disagreement (likely coming from other men) is often respectful and civil. Yet if a woman had written the exact same thing, the level of debate would quickly devolve into personal attacks on the woman, featuring little respect and a lot of vitriol.

For example, when men disagree with other men about things they said or wrote on this subject, the disagreement is typically prefaced with "I really respect you [/your work], but ...”, yet even women who are notably smarter, more eloquent, more successful and more incisive rarely get to enjoy such respectful commentary from the men who disagree with their points.

The tone of our debates – which often get quite heated – is frequently different based on the gender of the author(s). This fact alone reveals a gender-bias that contributes to a culture that disadvantages women and favours men.

Objectification-oriented programming

Society programs us – men and women alike – to measure a woman's worth by her appearance: weight, height, hair, clothing, skin (quality), makeup, breast and waist size, and so forth. This starts with our idolatry of "the ideal woman: thin, tall, beautiful, and of course, large breasts" but is exacerbated by countless ways in which we talk with, to, or about women. Anti-idolatry commentary like "but I prefer small breasts!" doesn't actually help, as it continues to validate the wrongful notion that appearance is what we should judge a woman by.

The list of ways in which society programs us with gender-specific norms (boys like cars and sports, girls like clothes and shopping) is so long, this article couldn't even begin to cover even a fraction of it. There are literally countless tiny influences that we are subjected to every single day, most of them completely subliminally, which frame and steer the way we think about men and women.

Only when we become more aware of and attentive to these influences do we start to realise how incredibly skewed society is. And that, in turn, can help us see how skewed our ideas of tech professionals are: we often picture a big white guy with a beard and poor hygiene as the quintessential 'hacker', despite the fact that hacking skills have absolutely nothing to do with gender, hair, hygiene or weight. But every time we depict a hacker as being that, it sends the message that you have to 'be like that' to be a great hacker, which deters anyone who isn't, cannot be, or does not want to be like that.

Our media culture today is overwhelmingly dominated by movies and TV shows that tell men 'this is what you want' and tell women 'this is what you should be'. You probably haven't picked up on this consciously, yet your brain will have picked up on it subconsciously. But take note next time you look at a tech conference's website: do its promotional photos and videos show many female attendees? Are there many female speakers? If not (and they frequently don't), how do you think that comes across to women? What message might that send to them? Conference organisers themselves are starting to notice the impact and value of them actively reaching out to find more female speakers, resulting in greater satisfaction all around.

True == false equivalence

One common counter-argument against the objectification of women is that 'men are sexualised and objectified, too!' but this is what is known as false equivalence; what matters isn't whether men and women are portrayed in an idealised way, but whose ideals they are portrayed by. Women are portrayed by men's norms and men's fantasy ideals, and men are portrayed by – men's norms and men's fantasy ideals. The incredibly muscular, well-toned man may be appreciated by (some) women, but he is largely a male power fantasy. Women, in our culture, are also depicted under male power fantasies.

Nothing sums up the disconnect better than this excellent comic on False Equivalency by David Willis (see main image above), but I highly recommend checking out these three examinations too: Sexism in Games Bingo, Fallacy of False Equivalence and What Sexually Objectified Male Video Game Characters Look Like.

That privilege thing

Which brings us back to privilege. You, dear reader, are you male? Then no matter how disenfranchised your specific, personal life might have been, no matter how unfair the world may have treated you, you still enjoyed all the privileged benefits that society gives to the male gender. Society has, from the moment you were born, tried its damned hardest to make sure all your desires were catered to. And if you are also straight and white, you're playing life on the lowest difficulty setting.

You have my sympathy for whatever unfairness you may have experienced – I'm sure we all have some examples of our own – but denying that being male or being white has given you a lot of privileges actually contributes to the problem. Feminists don't want you to apologise, or to feel bad for having privilege, nothing like that; we just want you to acknowledge it, and maybe not try to shout down women when they bring up examples of unfair treatment that they personally experienced.

Women are just not as interested in X

One common argument for low ratios of women in professional sectors is that 'women are just not as interested in X' where in our industry X typically means programming. But this is another fallacy, which we know because in societies where female developers are welcomed and prominently feature among the best, young women are as interested in programming as young men are.

While the phrase 'image is everything' is cliche, it also holds true when it comes to industries, communities and groups, and their perception to outsiders. A group of all men just doesn't seem as welcoming to women, no matter how welcoming they actually are. Some of the women who were interested in participating will be deterred by how they perceive the industry to be, which is partly why event speaker lineups are so important.

Victim-blaming

When all else fails, many men get defensive, and sometimes they disgrace themselves further by blaming the woman for whatever bad things happened to her. In fact, victim-blaming is so common that it can be really depressing doing research on it. I'll spare you the countless cases of rape victims being told by the legal system that they were to blame for some guy not understanding the meaning of the words 'no' or 'stop' or that it is "the fault of the world and society" when a young boy rapes a young girl.

I wrote "when all else fails" but what I really meant was 'when they don't get their way'. That may seem like a snide remark, but for more than a few of these men it rings quite true – however much they may deny it. They're so used to society working in their favour, to getting what they want, that any hint of resistance can serve as a rude wake-up call. To some, that wake-up call is a refreshing moment of enlightenment; to others, it seems to mean decency and civil discourse are no longer options (illustrated nicely in this comic). Our industry suffers from this a lot as well, where – especially in the startup scene – men constantly praise the efforts of other men, even when those efforts are of demonstrably less significance than the efforts of certain women.

Women themselves can fall prey to victim-blaming, too; many who are strong-willed, highly capable and independent, may suggest that other women simply need to present themselves more strongly and fiercely, to discourage men from harassing, assaulting or raping them. While a fierce attitude will help – tremendously, in many cases – the underlying accusation of who's to blame remains, wrongly, in the camp of the victims.

Death by a million paper cuts

All of these issues may seem like little things, and not worth making such a fuss over. They may seem to lead to a 'political correctness gone wild' kind of culture. But therein lies the crux of the matter: our society today is far from politically correct, if by that we mean respectful to all people regardless of their attributes. Even the most militant of us, who fight daily for improvements on these matters, would not want some overly-PC culture as a result.

What we are arguing is that maybe that joke you made, which some people complained about, isn't quite so harmless as you thought it was. And that maybe using the terms 'bitch' and 'rape' in entirely inappropriate contexts – gaming, for example – is only innocent to you because you never have, and never will, face the daily threat of real life, actual rape happening to you.

People sometimes worry that if we take all of these issues so seriously, we'll never be able to make a raunchy joke. But that is a false assumption: the problem with certain jokes is less specifically the joke content, and more about the context in which the joke exists. A rape joke is almost certainly not funny to anyone who's been raped violently, and on the internet, nothing exists in a vacuum. Your comedic timing is inherently without comedic context, and your 'funny remark' will invariably be seen by people out of context, as well as by an audience much larger than you intended it for.

Making a racial joke as a person in power (white, male, and straight are all positions of power in Western society) is indirectly threatening to any people not belonging to your race. However, making a racial joke about the vast majority of people, while you yourself are the extreme minority in the group, has a very different effect. Again, though, on the internet, this is simply impossible – your joke will exist everywhere and anywhere. As will your commentary, and your tone of voice (or vitriol) when debating on issues in public.

And if the death by a thousand paper cuts-aspect of this wasn't readily evident enough for you yet, consider that our world has a history, spanning thousands of years, of violence as a means to silence and control women. This is simply not the case for men, and never has been. Every woman carries that historical weight with her wherever she goes, whereas very few men even have an understanding of how heavy that weight is.

Equality and justice for all

The structural inequalities in our society are so complex that they are under constant debate (and scrutiny). Even focusing just on the confines of our industry, we may never attain the idealistic meritocracy we claim to crave. However, I will leave you with a parting quote to inspire you to help make a change and be part of the solution:

"We don't begin by asking what a perfectly just society would look like, but asking what remediable injustices could be seen on the removal of which there would be a reasoned agreement." – Nobel prize-winning Indian economist and philosopher Amartya Sen.

The debate starts by acknowledging the many problems, and hearing one another out over the details of – and proposed solutions for! – these problems that plague our industry, society and culture.

For our industry, many proposed solutions are emerging:

Our industry is quickly becoming one of the biggest and most widely influential ones in the world, but to serve the needs of people everywhere most effectively, we must exhibit great inclusivity within our own ranks. That, perhaps, could be our proudest moment.

32 comments

Comment: 1

Someone needs to watch Apple's "1984" ad as Big Brother looks down on similarly clad men and women being preached to. Let us all look alike, regulate our behavior and thinking with laws, sue us into submission, maybe even neuter us, for this common good.

Comment: 2

Excellent article - this is a great read for anyone - not just folks in the tech industry

Comment: 3

I hate these types of articles and I wish I hadn't read this now. It is so easy to bang on about how the evil white western man makes everyone else's life intolerable... it is a false and unnecessary myth to perpetuate in modern western society.

People are different to one another in many ways and I personally hope that remains the case. There is a need to promote the industry to both men and women of all ethnic backgrounds, but this should not be a consciously activity in my opinion... the best people at what they do should be the representatives, event speakers, etc... regardless of what they look like or where they come from. I believe this is the case and I hope it continues to be so.

Yours,

A proud to be white western man who works with some very good male and female colleagues... not that any of that matters a jot!

Comment: 4

mdunbar, given that your response is enough of a classic to have been discussed in the article, I'm not convinced you did read it.

Both the glacial pace of passive change and whether your little bubble is any reflection of broader industry were covered quite thoroughly. That you've made the reply you have, demonstrates nothing more than a lack of thought.

Comment: 5

Excellent article! I don't think sexism will ever go away but it is definitely got better over the years. At the age of 11 I was the only girl in the school that wanted to play football for the school team and I wasn't allowed to because I was a girl and girls can't play football! At the age of 19 I wanted to do a computer programming course, instead I was put on a office course. I did 80% of the course in 3 weeks then as soon as it came to working in the reception I rebelled and left as it wasn't for me!

Now at the tender age of 32 and a little wiser I coach football to the under 10's in which my daughter also plays. I must admit I was a little apprehensive at first, especially after my previous experiences but I was welcomed with open arms and have never felt out of place as the only female coach in the club which coaches children from the age of 4 up to 19.

I also took the opportunity to learn web design and I am currently learning more about PHP and Javascript.
People will always have their opinions and to a certain extent I do believe that children are conditioned that way. Parents may force girls to do ballet dancing and boys to do football because it's what they want them to do. My daughter likes football and my son doesn't but if he wanted to do ballet I wouldn't object!

Comment: 6

Even after all this time I'm still disappointed and a little surprised that some commenters think that eliminating bigotry means conforming to a genderless, unindividuated future.

The problem isn't difference. The problem is bigotry. We can eliminate that while keeping what is different about us. The reason sexism and other forms of bigotry exist is not that difference exists: it is that difference is not respected.

Comment: 7

Thanks for a great article! It's often difficult to discuss sexism without sounding condescending or hostile, and I think you did a fine job at avoiding both. (And I'm impressed with .net for realizing its value and publishing it.)

Comment: 8

I would also like to thank the author and .net for publishing this article.

This is probably the most considered article I've read on this topic. The tone was neither biased nor accusatory, which I really appreciate.

What I took away from it was a call for empathy, plain and simple. Empathy, in it's text-book definition: "the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another".

I'm a twenty-something female working in the web development world.

Comment: 10

From my own little discovery about privilege... I talked to this nice, non-sexist guy why he's never able to call people out on their sexist behavior. Some of those paper cuts that injure people like me. He started talking that he makes mistakes... and everybody makes mistakes, right? And then I realized that he perceives the situation as about HIM in the center, who made a mistake of tolerating sexism, not about the receiver of this treatment. I also realized that I knew quite a few nice, non-sexist white guys who made themselves a center as well in situations of sexism or gender discrimination. If to talk about the essence of male privilege, it's pretty much lack of empathy and an inability to put himself in *her* shoes. I wonder how much of it comes from the society's notion that females are inferior. Me, a man, imagining myself as a woman? It's insulting (disgusting, stupid, unnatural, I'm not a gay - speaks about straight man privilege too).

Comment: 11

This issue has been beaten to death and then some. Women are "just not that into" tech. Period.
Of all the teenage daughters of my friends and family I know *none* that have an active interest in maths, science or tech. I'm not saying they're not getting good grades - it just doesn't interest them that much.
Take the translation industry for example which is practically female dominated, do you think they're having discussions about their industry being sexist?

Comment: 12

just feels like a ploy for exposure to me... infuriatingly pointless, inaccurate and in my opinion, sexist. can we all stop going on about this topic now please, it's getting on my tits.... oh sorry, was that sexi- ... am I allowed to say tits? ;)

Comment: 13

Over-generalising article is over-generalising.

Comment: 14

I think this is a great article and I'd personally like to see something like this make it into the magazine (will it?). It is a subject that needs addressing. Even if everyone has a different take on the subject, I still think it's a valid discussion to have and shows what an open industry we have where we freely discuss important issues like that.

Although there was one line I'd like to see reworded in the article:

"may suggest that other women simply need to present themselves more strongly and fiercely, to discourage men from harassing, assaulting or raping them"

I seriously doubt any woman has ever suggested that people could avoid being raped by presenting themselves more fiercely. I think the whole rape culture issue is a separate issue to sexism. There was an excellent article on the Escapist about rape culture from a male perspective which is well worth a read: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/9766-The-R-Word

Comment: 15

I don't understand individuals who comment on this article using the exact non-responses this article refuted in their comments. Did you 1) not read the article 2) refuse to consider your own biases or 3) decide that you must know better?

Because at the end of the day when you deny that there is a problem in the tech industry, what you are saying is that you clearly know better than the 1,000s of men or women who say otherwise. Why is that? Are you that much smarter than so many people? DO you have some special insight into the world that others don't? Or are you simply a person who cannot stand having your worldview challenged.

eheiser! Nice to meet you. I'm a woman. I'm into tech. I frickn' LOVE it. I know several other women who do as well. We now cancel out your sample of teenage girls and you can stop saying that women are not into tech.

As to the young-ish women who deny that there is some sort of problem, please research the difference between personal anecdotes and trends, data, evidence. Likewise, go to a museum, library, cave or forest and reflect upon the fact that there is such a thing as history and that the world was not always as you experienced it, nor is your experience enough to silence the countless experiences of others.

We can all be better than our current status quo. Let's aim for that.

Comment: 16

Thank you for writing this article. Sexism is a real issue in the tech industry for very different reasons than in a lot of other industries. While in some more old fashioned industries, there is deliberate discrimination against women (and other minorities), in the tech industry (in my experience) it happens not because anyone intends to discriminate, but as a by-product of the fact that the industry doesn't have a high proportion of women.

This means that people with influence in the industry tend to have a network comprising mainly of white men, who they will go to with opportunities and information. The fact that it's common for conferences to have no female speakers is a good example of this.

I blogged on this topic last year and received a lot of positive responses form men which was great. I also received some personal abuse, which was not so great. What I was most saddened by, however, was the fact that those women who responded did so privately as they didn't want to put their heads above the parapet.

Comment: 17

No one is denying the history or that sexism exists or saying that they know better or trying to silence the experiences of others but I don't believe that the lack of women in tech has anything to do with sexism and I am perfectly entitled to feel that way. Yes I am biased.

You cancel out the sample of teenage girls? Hang on, what was that you were saying about someones experience not being enough to silence the experience of others? I don't think eheiser's point was that all women aren't into tech (clearly some are) but that the majority aren't. Those teenage girls are potentially the next generation of "girls in tech".

The friends I had when I was at school (15 of which were girls) knew exactly what I was doing at home, learning this stuff and getting into tech but NONE of them showed any interest no matter how much I spoke about it. I cannot believe that may have been because they considered how male dominated the industry was and therefore feared sexism or felt groups of men weren't as welcoming (I couldn't keep them away from guys). They simply just weren't interested and pursued other industries.

You mention trends, data, evidence but I thought they were significantly based on personal anecdotes. I have been in this industry for over 10 years and never experienced sexism (IMO). If I have it's worked for me rather than against me. I've been asked to speak at events and refused. That's not because I was worried about sexism or being uncomfortable around men... I am just a wimp and don't believe enough in my ability.

If this was an article on sexism in general then fair enough, it exists and that's obvious, but I'm struggling to see the relationship between tech and some of the subjects in this article.

Comment: 19

I should add something to clarify a part which people are clearly not reading or interpreting accurately:

> And that maybe using the terms 'bitch' and 'rape' in entirely inappropriate contexts – gaming, for example – is only innocent to you because you never have, and never will, face the daily threat of real life, actual rape happening to you.

This is referring solely to the subset of men who, in online gaming especially, make regular jokes about raping someone, or referring to others as their bitch, when they beat them at a game. Somehow people are extrapolating this as a claim that men don’t ever get raped, or could fear rape. That’s not what the words say, and of course, we know that’s also not reality. Men do get raped—primarily in prison or as young boys—but society does not structurally hold men accountable for doing all this raping (99% of rapists, no matter the victims’ gender, are male). Society _does_ structurally hold women accountable for getting raped, and does not do so for men. Society frequently tells women who are rape victims “it was your own fault” for whatever reason.

That. That effect, that treatment, that systematic problem, is one that men do not face, and never have to face. It’s not about whether men get raped or not (they do), and it also does not say that every woman has an active fear of rape in her daily life (many thankfully don’t).

If you don’t think making rape jokes is always and completely innocent, then the above paragraph I cited _does not even apply to you_.

Comment: 20

While I do appreciate discussion on this topic, I really wish we would stop framing it as "sexism in tech" and just talk about it as sexism and casual misogyny in general. I've worked in the tech/web world for ten years. To be really honest, the only sexism I've ever encountered in this space came not from my male designer or developer peers but rather from the C-level: The guys who sometimes wear suits and tend to come from old school biz culture. While I've never felt disrespected, held back or demeaned by any of my tech peers, I have had the newly hired, ex-banker president of a startup I worked for come and seek me out as the only female on the team and hand me a list of office supplies he needed ordered (bypassing the male interns and several much more junior staff), and had another CEO fluff off serious complaints from female staff about a female manager until the guys on the team also complained--at which point the "Oh, you know how girls are bitchy to each other..." line was dropped and the problem was actually addressed. I think women in the workplace face issues like this whether they work in tech or finance or service or medicine or wherever. There is a pervasive attitude across our entire culture and you do touch on it in this article, but I think attempting to address just within the purview of "tech" is pretty pointless. Lately I've been concerned with the casual misogyny displayed by a lot of the *younger* guys I know--mostly those in their early/mid-twenties--and they seem mystified when I point it out to them, completely unaware that their attitude is in any way sexist or wrong. Whereas the 'old school' mentality about women in the workplace has sort of been petering out as those guys retire and more enlightened Gen X-ish folks take their place, I see Gen Y as a new, scarier challenge. Changing attitudes and stamping out this behaviour is going to take awareness and zero tolerance from both women and men--not just in tech, but everywhere.

Comment: 21

Personally I don't think .net is the best place for this article.

Whether sexism is a problem in the tech industry seems up for debate. Is our industry any worse than society at large or is it in fact worsened by a predominantly male workforce? Are the higher numbers of males in tech skewing the figures and increasing the number of individual cases of sexism if not the overall percentage when compared to other industries?

I do feel for those that are subjected to sexist actions but this article makes too many generalisations resulting in the vilification of straight white males (of which I am one). The mention of Rape and Rape Culture in the article is a big mistake and is a separate subject than that of sexism. Though someone's humour can be misplaced and inappropriate enough for them to tell a rape joke it does not mean they are sick enough to actually commit rape.

The problem with this article is that with only minor amendments this article could be placed on any leading publication in any industry and still be applicable. The article makes no specifics about the tech industry and though I understand from it's title that it is supposed to be a starting point for wider debate I think this is not the place to do that when these problems are not specific to the tech industry.

When it comes to sexism in our industry I think our focus needs to be on encouraging young girls as well as others that our industry is a viable option for their future. We need to make our industry attractive to young people and provide them with the resources so that everyone has the same opportunity to become as adept at the job they do than a man. There are many in the industry already that have the skills and drive to be seen as industry leaders.

We could try and positively balance the numbers at conferences and at workplaces but do we do a disservice by not hiring though best suited to the job? If we hire based on gender or other differences then are we saying it's OK to be mediocre so long as you have breasts, black skin or any other visible difference? I'm not suggesting that any group is less qualified than another to do a job but when you look at individuals there can be clear differences in the level of someones work or their ability to undertake a given job.

The problem of sexism in the workplace, such as inappropriate comments and jokes is a problem in society not of the tech industry alone and the tech industry alone cannot alter society at large.

Comment: 22

This was a great article. I don't appreciate the efforts of some commentators to shut down this discussion, though.

A number of lady commentators have described not ever having experienced anything like sexism in their lives or careers. This is a wonderful thing that should occur much much more often. But, essentially, these comments seem to belie an image of the industry as a genuine meritocracy. The women having these kinds of experiences are simply on the more-priviledged fringes of a largely underpriviledged class (underpriviledged because not white, straight, and male).

While all perspectives are valuable, the general impression of these comments are that we should all just shut up about it now. Why is this? Is is because of the belief in meritocracy that such discussion might imply that your success was not due to merit? Or that positive action (see definition above) will pollute the workforce to the point that your own genuine merit is overlooked? I think that even though you may lie on the more-priviledged fringe, you have still succeeded against great odds, and that this is something to be very proud of.

There are a great many of us who would like to see it better for any and all underpriviledged (non- white, straight, male) groups. All are entitled to pass over in silence these issues, but falsely proclaiming that they don't exist (even if for you) and that everyone should just shut up and get back to work is being part of the problem.

Only by creating open dialogue about sexism will there be any hope of curing it. Yelling about how it-didn't-happen-to-me is only going to make those whom it has affected less likely to speak and share their experiences. It might even cause some to doubt that what they have felt is genuine and chalk it up to a fluke.

Please please keep sharing your experiences of life and career without sexism---these are valuable gems to be cherished---but do stop giving the false impression that sexism doesn't exist and shutting down discussion.

Comment: 23

@SciencePants Nice to meet you too. I too work with women (in tech) all of the time and have nothing but respect for their talent and skills. Maybe I just don't see a problem where you obviously do. Vive la difference, as the French say. Peace!

Comment: 24

Thank you very much for the article. I still don´t understand why for some people isn´t acceptable to do racist jokes but it is perfectly natural to do sexist jokes. It´s the same lame, pathetic thing in both cases.

I really enjoy .net magazine publishing this kind of stuff, so this problem (because it is a very serious problem) can get talked about, and discussed. I´ve recently read other article about sexism in the printed magazine. It was from Gary Marshall (Issue 230).

There are lots of women in this field and other fields that suffer sexism. And I think that as it isn´t acceptable to do racist jokes, it shouldn´t be socially acceptable to do sexist jokes either. It´s time to face it, and people as open minded as programmers, should be the first to set an example.

Regards,
Victoria
from Buenos Aires

Comment: 25

I stopped reading at "rape culture". Seriously, what a load of horsesh*t. I want to read tech news, not feminist propaganda. Proves again that this field is full of effeminate hipsters.

Comment: 26

To the anonymous poster... No one is claiming sexism doesn't exist and when I personally said I haven't experienced it, I specifically said "(IMO)" because things I have experienced could easily be considered sexism by some. I've just never considered it that way. I've had "get back in the kitchen" etc. remarks but to me, they were jokes and I rose above it. I'm not saying that people need to lighten up as I realise that some do get offended by these comments and sexism is definitely an issue but don't understand why the tech industry has anything to do with that.

My issue is not that people are going on about sexism, as I said before... it exists and that's obvious so a general sexism article would make more sense... on another site... unrelated to tech. However, focusing on sexism in tech and the lack of women in tech due to sexism is not something I agree with. Sexism has nothing to do with tech.

I quote the same as @toby: "Some of the women who were interested in participating will be deterred by how they perceive the industry to be" - Focusing on the tech industry in all these articles might deter women from our industry. Sexism in tech is such a popular topic of discussion that I fear it portrays the industry much worse than it actually is.

I know I am going on but I can't help it, I feel quite strongly about all of this haha. I will continue to yell about how it doesn't happen to me and hope that others do too because our industry is a fantastic industry to work in and the other side of the story needs to be voiced more.

LOL @JasonAldean.... :) exactly.

Comment: 27

@jjenzz - Yell about how it doesn't happen to you? Haha? Seriously lacking empathy of any sort, which is what the author is suggesting. @JasonAldean - demeaning the author as an effeminate hipster is pathetic. Reread the definition of feminism.

Comment: 28

I feel the author and magazine has done a good service in putting the spotlight on this topic, if only for a little while, because it does spark conversations and assessments of the social situation.

.Net is as good a medium as any to have this article, because this really is another 800-pound gorilla in many industry's living room (whether anyone likes it or not). It's really convenient and unemphatic to dismiss it's importance when someone—man or woman—hasn't felt affected by sexism.

I enjoy a tasteful, mildly personal compliment as well as the next person... in the right setting and context. The challenge is being socially apt enough and modest enough to know to whom and when to present sexually-charged comments.

Comment: 29

Yes @pattySTEM, yell as the anonymous poster suggested. I don't lack empathy at all.... I keep saying I realise sexism is an issue and that others may get offended by things I might not. My point there was, if people can shout about how they have been effected then others should be able to shout about how they haven't. That's how stats, data, evidence are generated right? By hearing both sides of the story?

I'll say it again... It's not discussing sexism that I find an issue, because that definitely needs to be addressed but it's the constant focus on this industry that I find worrying and a potential deterrent in itself.

Comment: 30

@jjenzz I find your opinion fascinating. So you do agree sexism needs to be addressed? Why NOT in the tech industry? It might deter women from our industry? Really?? Also, I wasn't even aware there is a constant focus on this industry when it come to sexism. And if there was, did it deter you?

I think it's really great that you 'rise above sexist jokes' and don't get offended by it. Somehow you seem to be missing the point here. Women wouldn't have to rise above anything if the jokes slash sexism wasn't there in the first place. Wouldn't that be great?

Discussions like these help raise the awareness. It's not heavy stuff. Just useful. I think it's really great .net realises this value and published this article.

Comment: 31

To @lynneux @keanrichmond @JasonAldean and @jjenzz: the reason we’re discussing it in the confines of the Tech industry, on the pages of a Tech-specific magazine, is because _that’s our industry_. We like to have a clean house. It is an issue that does plague all of society, and much of its effects are borne in the greater societal structures as well, but all that does not mean that we cannot simply take the position of wanting _our own_ industry to be a great, inclusive example for other industries to learn from. That's why it's “in Tech.”

(Extra thought: just because we’re discussing it “In Tech” here and now does not prevent us from also discussing it on other platforms in the greater context of society at large. These efforts are mutually exclusive only in terms of time, which we can have plenty of if we make things a priority)

To @toby: you say “perceived preference” as if you don’t realize that that’s just a different term for “gender bias.” It seems like you just want to frame it in a non-offensive manner, but whether it's a conscious or unconscious bias—or “preference”—the result is the same: a certain level of hostility towards women, which can and *does* deter some women from feeling at home in our industry, or even wanting to enter it.

> “Absolutely every example you cite of maltreatment of women have their equals in the male populace”
Sure, but not even remotely in the same league. This is like saying “person A got killed, and person B got stepped on their foot and will make a full recovery. Ergo, A and B are suffering equally.”

Your implication about career women is fabricated by your own views more so than the article, if not wholly so.

> “If discrimination of any kind in any workplace is reported it should be dealt with without deference to gender”
Yes, and famine is over, slavery does not exist anywhere, child labor is a thing of the past, and women are truly treated equally everywhere. Oh, and don’t forget that we have world peace. I’m sorry if you feel mocked, but this is where your privilege shows: you believe that life is this fair, this easy, this honest. It's not. Oftentimes, a woman reporting discrimination or, worse, sexual harassment happening to her, is going to end up dealing with even far greater stress and discrimination than she had prior to the reporting. For a high profile example of this, see http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2012/10/03/ellen-pao-says-kleiner... — but know that this is but one example of many. Yes, most incidents probably DO get reported and dealt with just fine, and things improve thereafter. But there are far, far too many occasions where that simply is not the case, where women instead get fired or driven out of the company for “rocking the boat” or for “making the company look bad” with her “sexual harassment claims”. Yes, because the motivator of a woman for reporting sexual harassment is to make her _employers_ look bad. No, it's to get it dealt with, but unfortunately, many men don't respond too well to such reports—see the GeekList/Shanley fiasco—and the result is too often that the woman gets the shit end of the stick in such situations.

To @JasonAldean and his useful contribution: your reaction reflected poorly only on yourself, because you let us all know that you didn’t bother reading the article but nonetheless felt self-important enough to think your opinion still mattered. Also, rape culture: http://www.thelocal.se/25750/20100326/

To @jjenzz and the “focusing on this issue in tech might deter women” line of thinking: this is hard to measure. I agree that the possibility is very real that some women may see these discussions and think “wow, there's a lot of issues in tech.” And I agree, very much so, that we should also spend time celebrating great achievements of and contributions by women in the field, and make mention of women experiencing no sexism (to their awareness) in tech and just having a kick-ass career. That is definitely important for us all to do as well, and my article sorely lacked such a complement.

However, from the incredibly overwhelming amount of positive feedback I've had over and over and over again for all these efforts I've put into bringing this topic to the forefront of discussion, whether it's this (most recent) article or any of my previous ones posted to my own blog (farukat.es), I can confidently say that a huge number of women are very grateful that we are having these discussions, and that many men have expressed thanks for helping them better understand what actions might be harmful or offensive to women. At the core of all of this—society at large, tech in small—is a lack of awareness of the full extent of these issues, and of their highly nuanced intricacies. What all of these discussions accomplish is raising awareness for some people, to some degree, and that is a huge net positive effect.

Where some women may see the debates as “there seems to be a lot of sexism in tech,” others may see it as “oh nice, people are very serious about addressing any sexism that exists in tech” and feel more at ease about joining the field, because it makes it far more likely that IF they are to experience any kind of sexism, the community will take them seriously and try hard to address the problem.

And if, at the end of the day, all I achieve with my activism is making it clear to many others that I take these issues very seriously and will put a lot of effort into addressing these problems, then that is already a pretty big win. And already there are plenty of much smarter and more experienced women who will vouch for that.

Comment: 32

Bulging biceps is a *male* power fantasy? Surely news to all the ectomorphs and endomorphs out there who are not so endowed. And if you are currently making a lot more money than I am, am I still privileged?
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